Of course it is true that dogmatic formulas have an immediate sense, potentially knowable by anyone (it is the basis of the common sense doctrine). Fr H, if what you wrote above is true about Fr Z’s blog, we should be even more grateful for this blog, which allows different views and opinions to be stated and discussed. One says that the Council is irrelevant and to be discarded. THE HYPOCRISY OF THE NATIONAL SCHISMATIC REPORTER. The use of the adverbial phrase "quodammodo" (which, moreover, is typical of the great classical theology, inspired not by the criteria of geometric-mathematical uniqueness, but respectful of the Mystery), however, warns us to draw hasty conclusions. 2. This isn't what Pope Francis would recommend at all Nasone. the media coverage of the traditionalist criticisms of Vatican II, with annexes and connections, is quite worrying and in some ways surprising. AND reading some of the brilliant comments that follow what Fr Hunwicke wrote about Vatican II. Sandro Magister (born 2 October 1943) is an Italian journalist who writes for the magazine L'espresso. This is not enough, because the serious initial historical-ideological conditioning of the vision of Vatican II as an "event" has remained (see the French historiography, for the historical vision, especially after "Les Annales"), which leads the  correct interpretation. I can really recommend reading what Fr Hunwicke wrote on his blog (Mutual Enrichment, liturgicalnotes.blogspot.com) on the 24th July, 2020 in his post: What is to be done about “The Council” ?! Of course in Mark Thomas's Manichaean worldview he is a right-wing mutineer and sower of confusion. I think Father McDonald is very wise in his assessment. Anon 10:36 - you can’t argue with Fr Z on his blog because he only allows comments that agree with his views - I and many friends know because we’ve tried. Tuesday, July 28, 2020 SANDRO MAGISTER, JUST IN CASE YOU CAN’T GET ENOUGH OF VATICAN II Sandro Magister publishes two articles, a google translation: The dispute over Vatican II is increasingly heated. In terms of the new cardinals Pope Francis has appointed and the key positions given to some of them and the men he has not elevated to the cardinalate, t he Holy Father appears determined to ensure that the aims of his papacy will endure after he is gone. It's almost hilarious to hear our resident "expert" opine that Schneider, Vigano and others are sowing "confusion" by finally giving some clarity about what is wrong with Vatican II. April 16, 2020. Therefore, this was the dominant one, the more effective one, and it created so many disasters, so many problems, so much suffering: seminaries closed, convents closed, banal liturgy … and the real Council had difficulty establishing itself and taking shape; the virtual Council was stronger than the real Council. This poor little boy evidently didn't grow up in the 60's and 70's when this nonbinding "pastoral" council was imposed subjectively and gave birth to the great confusion that we are still dealing with. In a letter of 7 October 2013 addressed to him and then made public, Pope Francis himself wrote to him: "Once I said to you, dear Archbishop Marchetto, and today I want to repeat it, that I consider you the best hermeneut of Vatican Council II". Perhaps Lomotil will take care of your " mouth issue". If he DOES get a dissenting or valid question that is sincere or worth responding to, he often posts about the topic. Pierre said..."Vatican II, as implemented, was a flop. ", You forgot about him pulling his hand away when the people were trying to kiss his ring. Look at any metric and the Church is far worse off than it was before. THE "CIRCULAR" OF ARCHBISHOP AGOSTINO MARCHETTO. "I do not think we can follow this method, nor the method of “throwing the baby out with the bath water.” With regard to a legitimate ecumenical Council, even if there were negative points, we have to maintain an overall attitude of respect. It needs to be forgotten ... left to merge into the Church's general background murmur rather than touted around as if it offered anything whatsoever to help us to deal with Now." The implementation of Vatican II in Africa and Asia opened the door to boom times in said regions.Vatican II, as well as the Novus Ordo, are alive and well in those parts of the world.Pope Benedict XVI, February 14, 2013 A.D. This is especially due to the introduction of "new parameters" or "new ecclesial pragmatics" which does not worry too much about this continuity, thanks also to the exorbitant evaluation of the "signs of the times". According to the method proper to all biblical revelation. THE LETTER OF THE THEOLOGIAN FRANCESCO ARZILLO. Fr. For its correct hermeneutics", LEV, Vatican City 2012, p. 380) I draw the belief that even those who recall,  praising them, other hermeneutic tendencies, that of Peter Hünermann, for example, or John W. O'Malley, Gilles Routhier or Christoph Theobald, actually brings polluted water to the same mill. Francesco Arzillo, author of the first, is a magistrate from Rome who is an appreciated writer of essays on philosophy and theology. H,Are you saying Father Z's blog is just like Pray Tell where only the sycophants remarks are allowed? It affects birth and death, technology and the environment, politics and migration, in short, the very nature of man. Both Bert Einstein and Warren Buffet liked to draft their writings so that a sixth grader could understand them. Acceptance of Vatican II and being critical of one who chronically hijaks a blog....no matter what he is rambling about are 2 different issues. Paradoxically, then, we end up talking too much and almost exclusively about Vatican II, which is a Council already "metabolized" by theologians as well as by the faithful, starting from the next generation: a fairly contradictory position (if we want, even on a logical level) with respect  to the traditional premises of those who profess it. Francis is a human being. Site designed by Hyperdo Media. But I think I owe you these lines that touch my "love", the Vatican II Ecumenical Council. Copyright 2020 The Catholic Thing. All Rights Reserved. Vatican II is here to stay so get used to it (or get out)! he Holy Father appears determined to ensure that the aims of his papacy will endure after he is gone. This is not the first complaint we have had about it either, and I suspect it won't be the last. With regard to the reception of the sacraments by the divorced and remarried, is there the possibility of a change [...], One Vatican specialist (Sandro Magister) headlined a recent article thus: The Hundred Days of Francis and the Enigma of the Empty Chair. With Fr Hunwicke scholarship is tempered with whimsy; he delights in paradox and irony, preaches the most entertaining yet thought-provoking homilies, and as a lecturer can hold an audience spellbound when he is the last to speak at the end of a long day.His critique of what he calls 'Bergoglianism' is trenchant but well-founded, and his contempt for the 'ultrahyperueberpapalism' of certain Francis sycophants would have been shared by St John Henry Newman. Look at any metric and the Church is far worse off than it was before. THIS MIGHT BE BEATING A DEAD HORSE, BUT HOW HAS GO... SELF ABSORPTION AND THE CORRUPTION OF THE TRUE CHURCH. Again, I thought Fr Hunwicke’s views on Vatican II stated on his blog (Mutual Encouragement) recently we’re very insightful and the comments that followed were also mostly interesting and insightful.PG. The other said that although the Council contains grave errors, that we must respect, as well as maintain, the Council.Rome and my bishop, teach that Vatican II is orthodox, relevant, and informs every aspect of Church life. Tuesday, November 10, 2020. All rights reserved. In fact there is a novelty: I want to say that up to the beginning of this summer there were many who testified the fall of interest - let's say so - for the last Great Synod, despite my high lai. With no limits anymore. | Spanish Archbishop Agostino Marchetto, author of the second, in diplomacy until 2010, is one of the most systematic scholars of Vatican Council II, as well as a fierce critic of the reconstruction of that event produced by the "Bologna school" founded by Giuseppe Dossetti and then directed  by Giuseppe Alberigo and Alberto Melloni. MY CONTENTION, BASED UPON A TECHNICALITY, IS THAT ... NEW PALLIUM FOR NEW ARCHBISHOP OF ATLANTA? "It seems to me that, 50 years after the Council, we see that this virtual Council is broken, is lost, and there now appears the true Council with all its spiritual force. Can I ask, do you think Fr Hunwicke’s blog is a similar “echo chamber”? Go hereto read the rest. Thank you! Sandro Magister has a damning verdict on the Pope’s Easter missive to his pet popular movements: Here, made public for the first time, is the full text of the letter. O my, get out????? And in fact the Council itself, in the dogmatic constitution 'Lumen gentium' (13), faithfully following Tradition, clearly distinguishes between the call of all men to salvation and the actual membership of believers in the communion of Jesus Christ. In fact, I believe that the current "crisis" from which the Catholic Church suffers is also caused by this abandonment, by the question of its correct hermeneutics, the one announced precisely by Pope Benedict XVI, that is, not "of rupture and discontinuity, but of  reform and renewal in the continuity of the one subject Church ". "Father Hunwicke and Bishop Schneider differ radically in regard to Vatican II. Among them, a criterion of diachronic and synchronic totality must certainly be recognized. The following is why I adhere to Rome's teachings, as well as my holy bishop, who is in communion with Pope Francis:Father Hunwicke has assured us that Vatican II is "irrelevant," and should be tossed aside.Bishop Schneider said that some "who criticize the Second Vatican Council say that, although there are good aspects to it, it’s somewhat like a cake with a bit of poison in it, and so the whole cake needs to be thrown out. I would like to propose that we start a "Go Fund Me" page for Mark Thomas, with the noble purpose of buying this poor rambling soul a one way ticket on a slow boat to China. No debate, no criticism, no independence of thought. “Holy Father, during this visit … you have frequently spoken of mercy. THINK SAINT PETER’S BASILICA BEING CAPTURED AND TU... A RENOVATION DONE WELL WITH ITS FINISHES BUT STILL... BISHOP-ELECT PARKES FIRST HOMILY AT THURSDAY'S CAT... BISHOP ELECT STEPHEN PARKES’ BROTHER, BISHOP GRE... HABEMUS BISHOP! The AP reporter writes that ‘Francis’ obsession with Satan’ is because he has mentioned the devil ‘on a handful of occasions’ within a [...], The apostolic visitation of the Legion of Christ was wrapped up this month, and the contents of the final report will be revealed in late April. I suppose that was naïve. | Portuguese, Quartet for the End of Time by Olivier Messiaen. EVEN CARDINAL KASPER SEEMS TO HAVE UNDERGONE A CAT... SANDRO MAGISTER, JUST IN CASE YOU CAN’T GET ENOUGH... O MY! https://catholicfamilynews.com/blog/2020/07/29/prominent-italian-theologian-defends-archbishop-viganos-vatican-ii-critique-take-off-the-dogma-and-you-will-unleash-the-antichrist/A better article. It might be a bit severe to dismiss Father Z as a seeker of sycophants. Both on the issue - now more disputed than ever - of the Second Vatican Council. It would serve the 2 fold purpose of giving MT his own space for his devoted ramblings, while relieving the rest of us of the burden of his incessant hijacking of this blog. Dear Mr. Magister, Permit me to reply to your article “Archbishop Viganò on the Brink of Schism,” published at Settimo Cielo on June 29 . "=======================================================================I stand with Pope (Emeritus) Benedict XVI.His knowledge, deep insight, and analysis of Vatican II, has, during the past 60 or so years, been unsurpassed among Churchmen.He knows what he's talking about when it comes to Vatican II. First of all, there is an emphasis on the Council as an "event": with a singular methodological subordination to the well-known concepts of progressive brand (of the "Bologna school" but not only). Unfortunatley The Imodium doesn't seem to be effective. Z is a brilliant man and just operates "His Way". Creation, According to Ratzinger (and a couple of other guys), At bishops’ meeting, it’s mostly McCarrick, Pope Francis: Pray that robots don’t turn against us, Two priests on the way ahead after McCarrick. Indeed, we went into the factual, claimed reception of the Great Synod, skipping the intermediate step of hermeneutic weighting. Z would never put up with someone like him). In the diachronic profile there is that of continuity over the centuries, which excludes doctrinal contradictions, provided that the contradiction is correctly identified, in relation to the precise scope of a truth and its doctrinal "weight" (the classic "theological note"). How about his drubbing of the Cardinals and Bishops of the Roman Curia as a Christmas gift a few years ago? E-mail: s.magister@espressoedit.it Postal address: Sandro Magister, "L'espresso", via C. Colombo 90, 00147 Roma Site design by Theo Nelki. http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.com/2020/07/what-is-to-be-done-about-council.htmlEven if a valid and magisterial Council, V2 is very poor one like Vienne was and is now forgotten. Counterpoint for its history", LEV, Vatican City 2005, p. 407) -  it turned out that the work of the "school of Bologna" was largely published with great historical and ideological gaps, both as regards private council journals, but above all because it was performed without the support of official documents essential for understanding the  Magno Synod, such as the Acts of its governing bodies and the general secretariat. Americans coming to Fr Hunwicke's 'Mutual Enrichment' blog need to put him in a context which is quintessentially English. “If you think that your priests and bishops are not saints, then be one for them.” — Robert Cardinal Sarah I know that many of our readers were irate over USCCB president Archbishop José Gomez’s statement on the 2020 election. Vatican II, as implemented, was a flop. Pax.Mark Thomas. Perhaps thinking, erroneously, that "what made boss has". In regard to the fake Council, the "Council of the media", as compared to the authentic Vatican II, he declared:"We know that this Council of the media was accessible to everyone. Here follows the full English translation of His Excellency’s letter of response to Sandro Magister, reprinted with permission: 3 July 2020. This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged. Sandro Magister publishes two articles, a google translation: I receive and publish the following two letters. Today, then, we can resort to that extraordinary source of knowledge of Pope Paul VI which is the Diary of Cardinal Pericles Felici, a publication edited by me. Developed by Fiat Insight. A strange Easter message, coming from a pope, for a resurrection wholly and solely political. Key phrase: ...“new ecclesial pragmatics" which does not worry too much about this continuity, thanks also to the exorbitant evaluation of the "signs of the times".Indeed. He wishes to accompany those in irregular situations with the Church and/or Vatican II and allow diversity in acceptance of its teachings not only on Vatican II but illicit marriage and the like. It is evident that on some things it is not possible to settle. It is not possible to adhere to Karl Rahner's epistemology, to the extent that it potentially excludes representations and interpretations that would not necessarily be part of it from the binding content of the proposition of faith: this is a discourse that ultimately excludes the same identifiability as the referent  of doctrinal discourse, which in some way needs appropriate concepts, such as included in the content of the dogma and not interchangeable "ad libitum".